The 2025 Lucid Air is now the most efficient EV on sale
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Honestly lucid has some
Fine engineering.
I’m genuinely excited about the new lucid gravity too, extremely efficient “suv” with a “f150 like trunk” where the grill opens, just like a trunk has for ages.
Collapsable seats for the third row, stored in the floor, looks great. I really hope they make it.
Sadly for me the air is not an option as my wife hated it that the headrest could not be adjusted properly (on a seat with 22 adjustment zones xD)
But its a wonderful car that drives like a dream, absolutely worth doing a testdrive in.
And the frunk and trunk soace is insane for a sedan, absolute best in class packaging!
Fine engineering.
I’m genuinely excited about the new lucid gravity too, extremely efficient “suv” with a “f150 like trunk” where the grill opens, just like a trunk has for ages.
Collapsable seats for the third row, stored in the floor, looks great. I really hope they make it.
Sadly for me the air is not an option as my wife hated it that the headrest could not be adjusted properly (on a seat with 22 adjustment zones xD)
But its a wonderful car that drives like a dream, absolutely worth doing a testdrive in.
And the frunk and trunk soace is insane for a sedan, absolute best in class packaging!
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My major issue with Lucid is the same issue I had with the Tesla Model S years ago - the interior feels incredibly cheap and there are parts you touch every day (switches, etc.) that feel flimsier than a 2005 Chevy Cobalt. As I recall, it was the air vents adjusters and the temperature up/down switches above the screen.
I don't understand why these new manufacturers cheap out on things like this. I don't want to be in a $150k car feeling like the temperature switch is going to break off if I use it too much.
I don't understand why these new manufacturers cheap out on things like this. I don't want to be in a $150k car feeling like the temperature switch is going to break off if I use it too much.
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I feel really dumb asking this question, but what's the heat pump doing? Is it purely for heating / cooling the cabin, or is it helping condition the battery?
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Its usually both, its cooling the battery, harvesting heat from motors, and potentially bringing that into the cabin.
But it can also dump it,
Or vice versa cool the cabin as AC
Main difference is just using a heatpump over a resistive heater though. Which adds a lot in cold weather efficiency.
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I have been saying for years that it objectively insane that any manufacturer is selling any EV or even a PHEV that doesn't use a heat pump for climate control. The difference between an air conditioner and a heat pump is a $5 reversing valve. It is inexcusable that any EV is still using resistive heat.
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Triple the computing power and double the memory? The previous model must've been a dog.
And, shout out for the metric units. It's very, very appreciated by, well, almost the rest of the world.
And, shout out for the metric units. It's very, very appreciated by, well, almost the rest of the world.
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Does the 2025 model year have NACS charging? I know Lucid announced that they would switch from CCS, but it's not clear if they meant calendar year or model year.
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Thank you, @Dr Gitlin , for doing the math and asking them about it. So often journalists don’t do the math on figures they are presented and something doesn’t add up. I’m glad they can’t slip it by you… even if their explanations are hand-wavey :-/
EDIT: And thank you, many commenters here, for explaining in detail about how eMPG is calculated! You are reasons I keep coming back to the comment threads.
EDIT: And thank you, many commenters here, for explaining in detail about how eMPG is calculated! You are reasons I keep coming back to the comment threads.
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The thing I want to see in the 2025 Air is that they have added the HUD from the Gravity to it. I know that lots of people have (strongly held) views the subject of HUDs, but for me, I really find it to be had to drive a car without one. I'd love to get an Air, but without a HUD, I may have to wait for them to add it. Any word on this??
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i saw one in a parking lot and the panel gap consistency was atrocious. definitely made it "look" cheap.
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Always great to have alternatives to Tesla vehicles. Lucid has a strong advantage merely by not betting the entire company on hyperbolic self-driving claims.
If you remove the cruft, they seem to be saying that the acceleration and deceleration in the MPGe test isn't as efficient as they'd recommend to get the 5 mi/kWh figure. I wish more drivers were careful about acceleration and deceleration. They contribute to both energy inefficiency and mortal danger.
EDIT: According to Zoc and Statistical below, the MPGe rating includes energy losses while charging back up to full, instead of just looking at how much battery capacity was drained (which is what Lucid uses to arrive at 5 mi/kWh).
EDIT: According to Zoc and Statistical below, the MPGe rating includes energy losses while charging back up to full, instead of just looking at how much battery capacity was drained (which is what Lucid uses to arrive at 5 mi/kWh).
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Modern heat pumps work at low temperatures. There's also nothing precluding you from having a resistive heater to supplement a heat pump for extreme cold conditions.
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The EPA range figure and MPGe figure and wHr/mi figure all come from the same testing. Claiming it gets 420mi from 84kWHr of juice and also claiming 146MPGe is a contradiction. There's no way it makes sense to claim both, officially.
Acceleration and deceleration isn't a huge deal for an EV, as long as you decelerate slowly enough to do it entirely with regen.
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The post I replied to just implied that only difference between using climate control for AC and heating is a $5 part. If you have to switch between different method of heating, etc, that's not a single reversing valve. Basically, either the post I replied to was implying of getting rid of all heating except for a heat pump, or they were not being realistic on what these type of changes would entail and were intending to be misleading.
I'm all for using heat pumps for more efficiency. But its not just a simple $5 reversing valve.
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We had 2 Model S's and currently have a Lucid Air GT. I don't agree at all, it's like comparing apples to rocks. I fully agree that the Tesla interiors feel cheap and crappy, it's why I didn't buy out the lease in mine a long time ago. Lucid has way, way, WAY better interiors with wood and stitching and soft fabrics where it makes sense. The switches don't feel cheap in any way, but I have seen where some people have worn our the arrows on top from adjusting them often. They certainly don't feel like they're cheap or flimsy.
The fact that there are even switches for adjusting the fan, temp, and volume are a huge plus over many cars that have moved to fully digital these days.
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The sizing of the components is probably very different when you have to heat a car in -20f temps.
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The difference between A/C, which is standard equipment now, and a heat pump is pretty much just the reversing vavle, yes. Getting resistive heating and a heat pump to work together is a bit of software.
Unless you're suggesting EVs with resistive heating don't have A/C.
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Resistive heaters are cheap and can be included as a backup at trivial cost. Also vehicles that drive in true -40F not just windchill need to be modified typically to be reliable at those temps regardless of what is powering them.
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5 mi/kWH is bonkers. That's almost double what cars were getting 6-8 years ago.
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Statistical
Ars Legatus Legionis
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This is not correct.
The mi/kWh (or kWh per 100 miles) is based on the performance of the vehicle EXCLUDING CHARGING. The MPGe includes charging losses. It doesn't measure the energy at the battery but at the wall outlet to charge the battery. The short version is including charging losses it takes more than 84 kWh to fill the battery which then gets 420 miles.
This is true of ever BEV listed not something special with lucid the author just noticed it because 5 mi/kWh is impressive.
For example Hyundai Ioniq 6
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=46957
24 kWh per 100 miles = 4.167 mi/kWh
Multiply that by 33.7 kWh per gallon and it would be 154 mpge HOWEVER the official mpge rating is 140.
Why? Because the 140 includes charging losses. The 4.167 mi/kWh does not it is just the capacity of the battery vs range under EPA test.
Look at it another way to go 100 miles requires 24 kWh of "juice in the battery" but to get 24 kWh of juice in the battery ends up requiring 24 *154/140 = 26.4 kWh at the wall outlet. Similarly the Lucid air can go 420 miles on a full 84 kWh battery (on an EPA test) BUT to put 84 kWh in the battery requires 97 kWh at the wall outlet which is what the MPGe is based on.
Personally I think MPGe just confuses things and everyone knows these days that any BEV is vastly more efficiency than any ICEV but the EPA goal here with mpge was to compare COST and as a consumer you pay for all the electricity used not just the useful electricity which is stored in the battery but any waste head and charging overhead (computer running, safety contactors engaged, and in some vehicle the heat pump is running to cool the batteries during charging).
Yes this does mean if Lucid improved charging efficiency in a future year with zero change in the driving efficiency then the MPGe rating would go up while the mi/kWh (or kWh/100mi) rating would remain the same.
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By chance is the company run by a narcissistic, megalomaniac and a board of cronies?
Just something that seems to have come up lately.
Just something that seems to have come up lately.
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I read this as meaning that the EPA is calculating MPGe based on how much electricity it takes to charge the car, ie including electricity lost to resistance during charging etc, whereas Lucid wants to calculate based on the capacity of a full battery, ie after it's charged. Both seem valid to me, but I don't know much about it.
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The number of major population centres in Canada that regularly hit even -10C is pretty small at this point. I think it might have happened half a dozen times in Toronto last winter. We don't even have snow on the ground at Christmas anymore. Thanks, climate change!
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Lucid is making a lovely vehicle. I hope they have the staying power to achieve critical mass, as Tesla has done.
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targetnovember
Ars Scholae Palatinae
Am I understanding this correctly, in that air vents and physical temperature controls above the screen is or feels cheap intrinsically? Having air vents and physical controls below a screen is more luxurious and feels nicer?
Edit: Oh, I was not understanding correctly, I read it was "it has the air vents" not "it was the air vents." It's not easy working and posting online for some of us.
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Statistical
Ars Legatus Legionis
There is no incongruent math. They are measuring two different things.
The range is the range driven on the EPA cycle. The mi/kWh or kWh/100 miles or Wh/mi are simply a measure of EPA range vs battery. That simple. 420 miles on 84 kWh battery IS 5 mi/kWh. (420/84).
The mpge rating however includes charging losses. To put 84 kWh of usable energy into the battery requires more than 84 kWh. In this case it actually requires 97 kWh. The MPGe rating is MEASURED AT THE WALL OUTLET and then compared to EPA range.
Side note the Lucid has a bit below average charging efficiency most vehicles are around 90% efficient with the best being around 92%. Lucid Air is only 86% efficient when charging. If Lucid improved charging efficiency in a future model then the MPGe rating would rise even if the vehicle had the same battery and range.
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So if I understand correctly from what I read in the article, the EPA mpg rating is measuring the kWhs leaving the charger and using that in their calculations, and Lucid is using the capacity of the battery in theirs.
Both are interesting and useful.
Lucid's is more important with range obsessed drivers, and maybe helping keep the weight of batteries down.
The EPA's is gonna give you a more accurate cost basis for driving.
Both are interesting and useful.
Lucid's is more important with range obsessed drivers, and maybe helping keep the weight of batteries down.
The EPA's is gonna give you a more accurate cost basis for driving.
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It would be -40°C up here, thank you very much.
Anyway, the people with houses with heat pumps in the extreme-winter parts of Canada have backup systems installed so I imagine the same is possible with a car.
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All well-designed BEVs should use a heat pump, instead of resistive heating, to warm the batteries.
It increases range in cold weather.
It's still shocking to me that there are expensive BEVs without heat pumps, and those manufacturers should be called out for cheaping out on an essential part
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The efficiency improvements and standard driver assistance suddenly make the Lucid Air Pure quite a compelling option at $70k.
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Statistical
Ars Legatus Legionis
To be clear it isn't Lucid doing something weird.
EVERY BEV has two different rating
range vs battery capacity = only range and battery capacity resulting in mi/kWh (or EPA reports it as kWh per 100 miles).
AND
charging efficiency loses which are used to calculate the input energy and this is shown as mpge which will always be a worse number because no car has 100% charging efficiency.
This is true of every single BEV ever produced and listed on EPA website.
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